Healthy Relationships Transcript

Cindy Lopez: Welcome. My name is Cindy Lopez, the host of this  CHC podcast, Voices of Compassion. We hope you find a little courage, feel connected and experience compassion every time you listen.

We live every day in relationship with others. Sometimes those relationships are healthy and have a positive impact on our wellbeing, and sometimes they don’t. In this episode, we talk with CHC experts Dr. Emily Hsu and Danna Torres about the importance of open and honest communication and why feeling valued and heard matters so much. We’ll also explore signs of an unhealthy relationship, how to recognize when your needs aren’t being met, when the boundaries aren’t respected, and when communication breaks down. So join us as we unpack the essentials of building connections that are rooted in respect, empathy, and mutual support, helping you spot the difference between a positive, nurturing relationship and one that may not be serving you well.

Thank you, Dr. Hsu and Danna for joining us today to talk about healthy relationships. So before we dive into the topic, why don’t you take a minute to tell our listeners a little bit more about yourselves?

Danna Torres, MFT: So my name is Danna Torres. I’m a licensed marriage and family therapist working here at Children’s Health Council, specifically in our Ravenswood branch in East Palo Alto. I’m also a bilingual therapist, and I work with families and children on many different things, but more recently, my focus has been parent education and supporting children’s communication and attachment and wellbeing with their parents.

Emily Hsu, PhD: Hi, my name is Dr. Emily Hsu. I am a bilingual clinical psychologist at Children’s Health Council. I provide services in Spanish and in English. I’m also trained as an adult psychologist.

I work in the Medi-Cal program, and I am part of the evaluation team, and I also provide parent coaching. I’m really excited about this topic because I think healthy relationships is something that we think of when we think of love and that could be for, you know, your family, your friends, and potentially your romantic partner. And when we think of love, I think, you know, isn’t it interesting how we are never taught how to love and what healthy relationships look like, and so I’m very excited about this topic.

Cindy Lopez: Thank you both Dr. Hsu and Danna for joining us today. This is a really important topic, and we haven’t really done this on our podcast yet. So happy to dive into this topic. So healthy relationships seems really important, but it also seems kind of hard. So first let’s talk about what healthy relationships look like.

Emily Hsu, PhD: Well, when I think of, what is a healthy relationship, I mean, it’s one of those kind of questions where it’s like, where do you start? It’s a very complex topic that I feel, you know, it’s really hard to capture in one podcast. And I’m really excited to talk about it because at its best I think a healthy relationship is the connection which I feel first starts with yourself, and then is also one that is a connection that develops with another person, who aligns with your values, accepts the unique aspects of you – like there is this interpersonal relationship that goes back and forth, kind of what I call from the dialectical behavior therapy perspective of self-respect effectiveness. And I think relationships are unique because there are no two relationships that are alike. And I think we have general definitions and examples. And I also think it’s one of those things where it’s helpful to reflect on how you feel around another person, how they lead you to feeling, and if you notice any patterns that arise within that relationship.

Danna Torres, MFT: I agree. I think that it’s very complex to talk about relationships and what makes a relationship healthy, right? And a lot of people well hear, say, you know, you gotta love yourself before you know how to love someone else or invite someone else into your life, whether that’s a family member, a friend or a partner. And it’s easier said than done. So I’m glad that we’re talking a little more about it from one of the various points of views, here in this podcast.

Cindy Lopez: Yeah. It’s interesting because you mentioned this, Dr. Hsu and Danna too, like, you know, we think about relationships and love relationships or loving relationships in different ways. We can have that with ourselves, with family members and friends, and also in a romantic relationship. And sometimes I think at least I’ve experienced this, and I see it, is that your sense of self can often come from how you’re feeling in that relationship. And so I think that’s an important distinction to make. We don’t need to be with others to have a healthy sense of self, either. And I know we’re going to talk about that in a little bit. As you think about characteristics of healthy relationships, whether it’s a romantic relationship or a friend or family or whatever, what are some characteristics of a healthy relationship?

Danna Torres, MFT: In the work that I’ve done with families and in a broad sense, feeling safe or comfortable enough to express when something is amazing, going well, and when things are not, when we need something. I mean, we might not always know what that is, but in a healthier, safe relationship, right, we can say, “I don’t feel good.” I would like this thing, but it’s not working out. What are your doubts? You know, those thoughts, feelings that we want to communicate to another person that we know we can have a back and forth with. And depending on that dynamic, right, that you’ve formed with that person, you can see if, you know, you go into problem-solving mode or if they’re there to validate your feelings, depending on the relationship that you’ve built, but I think that’s one of the directions or one of the things that we can reflect on or look for. What those difficult or intense conversations can look like and how you feel when you’re having them.

Emily Hsu, PhD: Yeah, Danna, I would definitely agree with everything that you said. And I think it’s one of those kinds of things where we talk about this after you’ve identified, like a relationship is important and to you, like this is a relationship you want to keep and sometimes to identify if this is a relationship you want to keep, you need to go back to, is there aspects of this relationship that I feel comfortable in, I feel safe in, and I don’t, right? And I’m taking this from the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction on how to build healthy relationships using six principles of compassionate instruction. That’s what they call it. I’ll go over them quickly. It’s always empower, never disempower, providing unconditional positive regard. Some of us may know that from Carl Rogers in the field of psychology, maintaining high academic and behavioral expectations. And I’m going to go into that one a little bit more, but that means consistent expectations and limits, right, you know, setting limits and rules that keep, for example, your children and students safe and protect their wellbeing, using a common perspective voice. The fourth one is checking your assumptions, observing with–and I’m going to add this part–all of your senses, as appropriate, and then asking questions, being curious. And number five, in which they add is being a relationship coach. And number six is providing guided opportunities for helpful participation. And in those last two areas, it’s one of those things where it’s helping individuals feel safe and supported to ask questions, which in my field, I ask a lot of questions. And it’s because I really want to understand and try my best not to assume that if a parent or a teenager comes and says something to me, that I necessarily know what they’re saying, because sometimes I don’t. And I think that can be something healthy as well. Asking questions, getting clarity, and then encouraging the other person to ask questions of you as well.

Cindy Lopez: Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of what you both said is around open communication, being honest, and having enough trust in the relationship, knowing that that person can hopefully hear what you’re saying because of the trust in the relationship. There are so many things and you just both unpacked that and said a lot. I’m wondering, where does it start? Where is the starting place in terms of thinking about healthy relationships? Does it start with ourselves?

Emily Hsu, PhD: That’s a really great question, like where does that healthy relationship start? And I think about children, and the developmental milestones and how parents, caregivers, foster parents, adoptive parents, foster that sense of self, like I think about how typically, when I say typically, I mean, generally speaking, you know, when a child is brought into this world, where they’re brought into a family, for a number of different reasons. They start exploring the world. They don’t necessarily have the language for it. And I think this is where caregivers will help them find the language through talking to them. And I think about how much of the couple months of the relationship is for me, you know, babies get exceptionally fun at around like the six month mark because there really is that level of engagement. And I think about how we want to talk to our children about literally anything, to help them put words on, help them understand like, oh wow, like, yes, you’re yawning. Oh, you are crying because it seems like you’re hungry. And I think about even though the child may not necessarily understand everything that you’re saying, why it’s so important to talk to your children all the time, especially when they’re pre-verbal to foster the verbal part of their expression is because for me, that’s where the healthy relationship starts. It helps them in navigating their world as they meet their developmental milestones. And it starts with children orienting to your voice, right? Like babies know pretty quickly, this is mama’s voice, and then this is so and so’s voice, you know, that they know pretty quickly and I think that relationship starts with the major caregiver in their lives.

Danna Torres, MFT: What comes to mind is attachment and how that’s connected with connecting with the people around us, right? And when we have that foundation and safety, then you go out into the world and you mirror that in some sense, or other times, right, we compensate, we cope. And so if a child from the beginning, if a person is taught that it’s okay to ask questions and set boundaries and to question the things around them and to be curious, then when they go out into the world, they’re surrounded by other people that think similarly, right? And they surround themselves in spaces where they can thrive in that way. And sometimes the world doesn’t allow for that or we bump into people or spaces we might not connect with, right, that might not think the same way. But that resiliency comes from beginning relationships of maybe this isn’t the space for me. Maybe I need to ask for help, and I feel safe because in my home I’ve always been taught that I can ask and challenge in a respectful manner and get those needs met, right? And I feel like it’s kind of like a full circle, starts in one place and what you’re saying is connected to that attachment piece and then you go off into the world and hopefully, right, thrive.

Emily Hsu, PhD: I would agree. I think attachment theory is really interesting, and I think it’s really important, like who you form your attachment with. And, as adults, you know, we look at different attachment styles, and are we securely attached? Are we dismissively attached, avoidantly attached? And I think it’s one of those things where, yeah, we look at those early formations of how a child, you know, navigates the world. And the reason why I said, not just parents, but I said caregivers, I said, you know, adoptive parents, foster parents, I said all of that, because in my experience, and from what I’ve noticed in literature, you just need a healthy and stable connection with one positive individual, right? And I think about how our children, as we go through the stages of where it’s the persons that are in your immediate circle, which could include grandparents, it could include, sisters, aunts and uncles, and how children are constantly trying to understand through these relationships, which is why relationships are so important, what the world looks like and can they safely navigate, but also come back to their stable attachment figure. Because we want them to go out into the world, right? Independence is something that we hope for, right? But we also want them to be able to come back to their secure base and be like, “Hey, this happened,” and then hopefully from feeling safe to have that communication of this happened and being able to process from like an open and curious kind of a perspective, the child is then able to go back out into the world having processed and engaged in that open communication of all right I’m going to try this because of what we talked about. And then keep going back and keep exploring and building upon those connections.

Danna Torres, MFT: What also comes to mind because I love practical experiences, like, examples that puts all these things together, right? I’ll speak for myself as a Latina, going off to college, what are our parents’ concerns, like, do you have the skills? Will you thrive if you leave? And that tends to be something that as adults, when we turn 18, even in adolescence, right, we’re forming relationships and we’re wanting to be independent and go out. And so when people have those experiences, attachments, security, you go off, you explore, and if a mistake happens, right, if something doesn’t go right, you get to come back and say, “Hey, I need help, like, I need emotional support. I don’t know where to go from here.” You guide the person and then you send them off again and they try. And that happens when we have that secure attachment, and that support system that you’re talking about, that foundation that can be either our family, extended family, or blended families.

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Cindy Lopez: We’ve talked about that attachment and how important it is to developing other relationships. I’m wondering, are there things that we should be looking for as we develop relationships with others? What is healthy? What is not so healthy?

Emily Hsu, PhD: Wow, I could talk a lot about this. I have a list, actually, I’ll start with some of the things to kind of look for in terms of what is healthy. And some of the what is less healthy may come into that and it’s one of those kinds of things where, you know, like you can be independent, right. You can be if we’re talking about a relationship with another person and this is not just because when we think of healthy relationships, there is a tendency to maybe think of like a romantic partner, but this is in all types of relationships. I think romantic partner is just a type of relationship that we have, but you can be independent. You can be their friend, even if you weren’t romantically attracted to them, you like their friends and for me that was a big thing because friends that a person surrounds themselves with is an extension of their likes, values, and interests. They’re self-reflective, right? They can take feedback. They can communicate, especially when things get hard. Because I think about communication in general, which is something that I could talk about because in relationships oftentimes what I’ve observed in my relationships and when I talk with my patients is how communication breaks down, how much is interpreted versus what is said; intentions versus like what is actually said; control–like there’s this aspect of not feeling control and they don’t depend on others for their happiness, and I think Danna had mentioned this before like they’re able to be by themselves. You know, they want social relationships, right? But there is that, like, at the end of the day, like, “Yeah, like, I can be by myself. I don’t need someone else to regulate me all the time.” They respect you. You’re like, are your requests, your protests respected? Do they celebrate your successes versus feeling threatened by it? Are they empathetic? Again, another topic I could talk a lot about. Empathy. How do they support you? And do you feel like you can be yourself? And other than physical or sexual attraction, you know, if this is like a person that you want to open yourself to in these ways. What else, and this is you asking yourself this question, what else than the physical or sexual attraction makes you stay in this relationship? I think these might be some questions to ask yourself.

Danna Torres, MFT: That self-reflective piece is so big, and I think a large part of the therapy or the therapy work that individuals might go in and seek out because there’s such deep and important questions, right? Sometimes we can answer them very, very clearly and say, this is what I like and this is where my boundaries are and you know, all the good things, we can verbalize it. But in practice, it can be really challenging, but it’s so important, right to self-reflect because we’re always growing. And what our mindset is now and what we expect from others and from ourselves might be different later down the line or as we grow in our profession, in different aspects of our lives, right. I think what really stood out to me, and what I find myself talking to clients a lot about is that empathy and boundary piece with themselves before they set them on other people and the self-reflection, right, of how did this interaction make me feel. If people take anything from the therapy that we’re engaging in, is did you take a moment to pause and to think through. If you couldn’t do it in that moment because a lot of us cannot right, we’re in the moment, but afterwards, how did it feel? What did you think? What stayed with you? And if we can’t answer those questions and we’re choosing to cope by moving past it, we start to create cycles, right, of those maladaptive coping skills, but I think what you mentioned are really important questions to pause and ask ourselves.

Cindy Lopez: So as you think about healthy and unhealthy aspects of relationships. I’m thinking about our listeners, caregivers, parents, others, what can parents do to support their child in developing healthy relationships? And what can they do if they see some aspects of unhealthy relationships in their child’s relationships? 

Danna Torres, MFT: Yeah, I can start off with just the topic of modeling. Something that I talk to parents a lot about is people sometimes feel like they need to hide discussions or arguments that they’re having. It’s healthy to resolve conflict in front of people when it’s done in a respectful manner. If you’re disagreeing and you’re modeling that for them, right? People can disagree and bad things don’t happen. We are upset and then I see how my sister or my aunt or the person I’m watching regulates. And so they’re modeling for me what it’s like to sit with anger, with frustration, with sadness, how they resolve, right? And so modeling is important, even when the kids themselves can’t regulate. We’re setting up that expectation that you can have those big emotions, and I’ll hold them for you. But at the same time, I’m holding boundaries, right? There’s a balance. So I think modeling is important. And again that reflection piece.

Emily Hsu, PhD: I would definitely agree, Danna. I think it’s one of those things where, and we talked about this in a different podcast, how to navigate relationship with your teen once they start moving towards that age, right. And I think it’s one of those things where, facilitating the opportunity for you to talk with your child. 

I have some parents who, which I love this idea, will take their children on dates. This is your date with mom, this is your date with dad. So the children get to have their time with dad. And this family is a dear family friend of mine, started this very early. I think it’s one of those things where, like, even if you don’t, you know, take your children on like a special day, it’s one of those things where you can just be like, hey, like, having family check ins, right, like I tell my parents, you know, if they’ve not done some of these things before and there is no like, “Oh, you didn’t do this and you should have done this.” There’s none of that, right? Because I’m of the mind where we’re here now, and we have the opportunity to interact and engage and to provide hopefully that safe space and put into the relationship bank. It starts out with providing observations, being like, “Hey, just want to check in and like I’ve noticed that when you came home like after you talked to Jenny when she dropped you off, I don’t know something about you seems different.” And while they may brush you off, you know, and I think that there’s a healthy level of that right because this also happens in adult relationships where sometimes we are not ready to process something that happened or sometimes we don’t have the words to talk about what happened, or we’re still just trying to figure out like, whoa, what just happened in this interaction? And sometimes we need to, like, I really appreciate how Danna talked about taking a pause and giving opportunity for that. Because it may be one of those things where in order to check in with your child when you’ve noticed that something may have happened to cause a relationship rupture with their friend, their whomever, you name it, and then you say, you know, I’m here for you, and you constantly are providing those opportunities and those expectations of yeah, I just want to check in with you, you know, let me know what you need, so that you’re also creating that space for the child to kind of like feel whatever it is that they’re feeling, put words on, and even if you don’t talk about it, because I know as a clinician, I really want to process. I really want to do that. And I’ve also recognized not everyone’s willing or able to. And that’s not necessarily something terrible, even though that’s something I’m still working on where I’m like, but I want to process. 

I think it’s about creating, to the best of your ability, you know, if we’re talking parents and caregivers that safe space for the other individual, be it your child, to be able to feel whatever it is that they may need to feel in that moment, right, regardless of whether or not you actually process it with words. I’m going to think about those moments when you spend time with your child and maybe you are doing a separate activity, but there’s proximity, like physically, you’re still keeping your eyes on the child, watching them go through it. Or maybe you’re watching a movie together and maybe you haven’t talked about it. I think it’s one of those things where as a clinician, I love to process, and I recognize that’s not what everyone wants to or is able to do. And so, creating that safe space for the child to feel whatever it is they want to feel and take with your question, whatever they are able to do in that moment, I think can be setting up that area, that safe space for the child to hopefully talk to you. And if they don’t, you’ve created the environment where if they needed to, they could.

Cindy Lopez: Both of you have said so much today. There’s so much to kind of unpack from this episode today. So to our listeners, feel free to listen over and over again. So we’ve talked today a lot and our listeners are probably a lot of parents and caregivers, however, if you’re a teen, what are you looking out for as you think about developing healthy relationships?

Danna Torres, MFT: I would love for them to take a moment and again, that reflectful piece of how they feel about the current relationships, pick any relationship that you’re in right now, right? That you have a friendship at school with a family member, with a cousin. And ask yourself if you feel okay saying no. If you feel okay putting the phone down and saying, I’m busy, I’m doing something, and I don’t feel the pull of being present for someone else and putting someone else first when I have a need that I need to meet for myself, right? I find that a lot of the times there’s this pressure to put other people ahead of our own needs. And that starts in adolescence because we’re wanting to build these relationships, right? And they turn out to be amazing, but sometimes they can be intense. And so for teens, just taking that moment to think about how they feel when they’re with their friends, right. And if they can say, “Hey, I can’t meet today” and what happens when you say that, like, “Hey, my mom cannot take us to the movies.” What happens when you say that? Or “I am available” and do they follow through with an invitation or with whatever it was that you guys had set up to do, right. The follow through, the boundary setting. What happens when you share something? Are they there for you? The things that Emily had mentioned? Are they happy for you, right? If something happens and they need to be there for you or they need to pull someone in for help, can they do that? Just reflecting on those individual relationships, especially as an adolescent is important because friendships at that age are so important. Sometimes it can be lifelong and really meaningful. So it’s important to kind of take a look at them and see how they make us feel.

Emily Hsu, PhD: Yes, Danna, I would agree, you know, and I think it’s one of those kinds of things where, this should be for all types of relationships. And as teens navigate, you know, their own social circle, right? Just like Danna had said, like, how intense are they in their interactions with you? Does the “I miss you” and this is for all relationships, right, does the “miss you” turn into too much? Like how Danna had talked about, you know, we talk about texting, talking on the phone, any form of social media is there maybe some impatience when you are not maybe faster to respond? And of course, you know, there’s, there’s different levels of responding, right? And we can’t always respond at the frequency and the timing that the other person wants. And do they understand that? You know, how does this relationship evolve, right? Because relationships in the beginning can be intense. And again I want to emphasize this can be for all friendships where like, you’re talking all the time, you know, you’re sending each other pictures of like, “Hey, I like this. Do you like this, too?” You know, like, how does that relationship evolve? And it is at a pace in which you are comfortable? And there’s different levels of comfort and what might be comfortable for someone might not be comfortable for another person. So being curious about, “If I’m having these thoughts and feelings like what does that mean?” And then processing it with your support group and the people in your life that you trust. Isolation, I think that’s something that Danna may have touched upon as well you know, like if you’re in a relationship and some people may see this in romantic relationships where in the beginning, right, you may want to spend a lot of time with this person, and that typically happens in like a romantic relationship where like you just want to see them. That’s normal, right? Like I hope you would want to see your person, your boyfriend, you know, your girlfriend, your partner, a lot, you know, in the beginning. But are you doing it to an extent where you’re now being isolated from the people who were there before this person was in your life, you know, is there independence? Is that encouraged? Like I think about extreme jealousy, like possessiveness and mistrust, right. Belittling. Like how are words used in this relationship. We talked about empathy, which is super important. You know, words, once those words are out in the universe, whether it’s through social media, your own words, text, once they’re out, you cannot take it back.

I mean, yes, some of us have undo send on our iPhones, but not everyone has that feature or has updated their phone. but words they have weight, and what may be a joke to someone, whether that’s an action or words, did that feel like a joke to you, right, and like if a person’s like, well, I was just joking, but you didn’t feel like it was a joke, it hurt your feelings, and you provide that feedback, like how does the person respond to it? Do they respond to a way that makes you feel seen or heard? And for me as a psychologist, I look for patterns, like for me, if like a person’s like, ah, you’re being too sensitive. I’m not going to be like, oh, nope. This person is not, you know in my circle, you know for me and I’m not saying you have to necessarily do this but in the mindset of pausing which Danna talked about and really taking time to be like well, how did this make me feel and really taking your time to understand that.

And if you decide, you know this is not early on even after one experience, this is not for you, and you know that, which is hard, right. It’s hard to know, right, because knowing can change. It can look different depending on where you are emotionally, but it’s one of those things where, you know, words should you. Words should allow you to be curious. That’s why communication is so important. 

And then there’s also like the volatility in relationships to look for in all relationships, but also for our teens, like, are there a lot of breakups and makeups. And again, this also applies to friendships. You know, are tearful, frustrated fights followed by what seems like a relationship rollercoaster, you know, and how does that make you feel? So these are just some of the things, to kind of look for to all of my teens out there and also to some of my parents, to really check in yourself and ask you, is this the type of relationship that I want to be in? And some days, depending on your mindset, your mood, your bandwidth, the answer may be yeah, I’m going to do what I can, but remaining curious, like I think that’s something that I really want our teens and our caregivers and parents to foster. Keep asking questions, keep checking in with yourself. Learning never stops. And I think that should be the case for identifying what is a healthy relationship to you.

Cindy Lopez: Thank you, Danna and Dr. Hsu for joining us today and helping us unpack this topic of healthy relationships. You’ve shared so much, so many great things. What do you hope our listeners really hear from you today?

Danna Torres, MFT: I hope that one of the things that they take away is that they deserve to have any type of relationship that they want, right? And that relationships evolve along with us. We’re always growing and learning, as Emily had mentioned. And so I hope that they find the support or the words to seek out relationships that make them feel good and to not feel guilty that sometimes relationships are not going in the direction that we want them to, and it’s okay to say that, you know, we’re going to distance ourselves or we’re going to jump in to something, right, as long as we’re aware, we do it with open eyes. Because I hope everyone feels empowered to build these beautiful relationships moving forward because we need them, right, as we venture off into the world and try new things and succeed, fail, all these things, right, our support system is there and that’s based off of the people we have around us, and how comfortable we feel with our emotional safety net.

Emily Hsu, PhD: Wow there’s so much that I want our listeners to walk away with. I want whoever our listeners are today to know that you wherever you are right now, emotionally, mentally, and physically, it’s okay, right? I often have parents come to me and say, oh my goodness, you know, Dr. Hsu, we talked about this intervention and I blew it. And of course, my first thought, and parents who work with me know this, I say, well, that’s a judgment, blew it, that could be a negative judgment. And let’s be curious, right? Let’s look at what happened. Let’s do what I call a communication and behavioral analysis on that. Because for me, it’s not about getting the relationship right, the interaction right, the communication right each time. It’s about what you do after you’ve recognized this was not how I wanted to talk to my child or this is not what I wanted to say or do. And this is also for, like, children, you know, or teens or middle schoolers who are like, Ooh, I didn’t want to say this to my friend or to my boyfriend or what have you. What are the steps you take to repair that potential? And I say potential, because you might think that there was a relationship rupture, but the other person might be like, no, dude, like I got, what? They might be confused. But I think it’s one of those things where like you have the opportunity, hopefully, you know, if the other person, you know, doesn’t give you that opportunity, like, you know, that’s definitely very painful. I want to note that. But you have the opportunity in all interactions to engage in relationship enhancing behavior after you have engaged in relationship rupture. And I want parents to know that, that it’s okay to not have all the answers because no one does. And if you feel like you need support, like how to put words on a topic. I tell parents sometimes, like if you’re worried about talking about, like for example, sex education. You’re worried about having that talk. Yeah, name it. Name that you’re feeling worried or you’re worried to talk to your child about, you know, the fact that you have a health diagnosis. You’re having a lot of feelings about it. I feel like going back to how we model for our children. You model hopefully what you want your child to also feel, right? Potentially feel, right? Because we can’t control people’s feelings. We can just create opportunities. And so I hope parents and my teens walk away being like, if I did not engage in that relationship in a way that was in line with my values, with what felt respectful, that you know that you can still have the opportunity to change the narrative. And that we’re not looking for perfection, and it’s okay. And that you also have support at Children’s Health Council if you need additional support because we are also part of this community, where we all have teenagers, middle schoolers, young children, and parents, and we’re all going through similar avenues. And so I hope that my listeners out there, our listeners out there, know that they have a community that wants to work with them, and most of all, support you, because we need support.

Cindy Lopez: Thank you. And on that note, for our listeners, please feel free to reach out to us at CHC. You can reach our care team at careteam@chconline.org, email careteam@chconline.org. You can also call 650-688-3625. It might be that you as a parent want some coaching, and we have parent coaching. It might be that your child needs some therapy. So please reach out if you’re at that point, we want to be there for you. Thank you, Dr. Hsu and Danna for being with us today, for sharing your expertise and your insights. And to our listeners, thank you for joining us.

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